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GOES

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Islamic controversial concepts part 9 (abrogation)

Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:17 PM EDT
religion, war, islam, muslims, lies, muhammad, abrogation
By Goes
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Even when it comes to the concept of abrogation, we find that Muslims are deceptive about it, and claim that Islam came and abrogated the previous religions, and there is no abrogation within Islam itself.

What happened in the Qur’an is, when a situation has occurred, some verses, and rules came, to regulate those situations. When the situation and reality changed again, other verses, and rules came, changing the previous ones, to accommodate the new situation.

Those forms of changes were made as following:

1. The verse, and the rule are canceled.

2. The verse is canceled, but the rule remained in effect.

3. The verse remained, but the rule is canceled.

Those are the different types that came in the Qur’an. Those changes got all Muslims In a situation, which they were never able to get out off. The reason is, the Qur’an is the only ‘holy’ book which has such a thing in it; it is the only book, in which God changed his mind, and words so many times, while the Qur’an itself, claims the opposite, ‘Al Kahf’ (27) “And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord, there is none who can alter His words; and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.” ‘Al Nisaa’ (82) “Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.”

Even if those changes were really made by God, there is a logical problem that can not be solved. Those changes happened, when reality has changed during Mohamed’s life. The question is, did reality stop changing when Mohamed died? Of course not, and if it didn’t stop, and it will never stop, why the Qur’an is not now changing accordingly? Who is going to make those changes now? God or Muslims?

One more thing, if God is going to change some rule or verse, and put another one better than the previous one. Wasn’t he able to put the best one from the beginning? Or at the time of writing that verse, it was the best he knew, and when he found something better, he changed it?

2.10 None of Our revelations[88] do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?

Al Jalalyn

When the disbelievers began to deride the matter of abrogation, saying that one day Muhammad enjoins his Companions to one thing and then the next day he forbids it, God revealed: And whatever verse (mā is the conditional particle), that has been revealed containing a judgement, We abrogate, either together with its recital or not [that is only its judgement, but its recital continues]; there is a variant reading, nunsikh, meaning ‘[Whatever verse] We command you or Gabriel to abrogate’, or postpone, so that We do not reveal the judgement contained in it, and We withhold its recital or retain it in the Preserved Tablet; a variant reading [of nunsi’hā] is nunsihā, from ‘to forget’: so ‘[Whatever verse We abrogate] or We make you forget, that is, We erase from your heart’; the response to the conditional sentence [begun with mā] is: We bring [in place] a better, one that is more beneficial for [Our] servants, either because it is easier [to implement] or contains much reward; or the like of it, in terms of religious obligation and reward; do you not know that God has power over all things?, including abrogating and substituting [verses]? (the interrogative here is meant as an affirmative).

Ibn Abbas

Then Allah mentions what was abrogated of the Qur'an and that which was not abrogated, as a direct reference to the claim of the Quraysh who said to the Prophet: O Muhammad! Why do you command us to do something and then forbid it, saying: (Such of Our revelations as We abrogate) We do not erase a verse that was acted upon before and which is now not acted upon (or cause to be forgotten) or leave unabrogated so that it is acted upon, (We bring one better) We send Gabriel with that which more profitable and easier to act upon (or the like) in reward, benefit and action. (Knowest thou not) O Muhammad (that Allah is Able to do all things?) of the abrogated and unabrogated.

Maududi

[106-107] We bring a better verse or at least the like of it for whatever we abrogate or cause it to be forgotten.109 Do you not know that Allah has full power over everything? Do you not know that the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth belongs to Allah alone and that you have neither any protector nor helper beside Him?

Ibn Kathier

(106. Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh (We abrogate) or Nunsiha (cause to be forgotten), We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is Able to do all things) (107. Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth And besides Allah you have neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper.)

22.52 Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity)[2810] into his desire: but God will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and God will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

 

AL jalalyn

And We did not send before you any messenger (rasūl) — this is a prophet who has been commanded to deliver a Message — or prophet (nabī) — one who has not been commanded to deliver anything — but that when he recited [the scripture] Satan cast into his recitation, what is not from the Qur’ān, but which those to whom he [the prophet] had been sent would find pleasing. The Prophet (s) had, during an assembly of the [men of] Quraysh, after reciting the [following verses from] sūrat al-Najm, Have you considered Lāt and ‘Uzzā? And Manāt, the third one? [53:19-20] added, as a result of Satan casting them onto his tongue without his [the Prophet’s] being aware of it, [the following words]: ‘those are the high-flying cranes (al-gharānīq al-‘ulā) and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for’, and so they [the men of Quraysh] were thereby delighted. Gabriel, however, later informed him [the Prophet] of this that Satan had cast onto his tongue and he was grieved by it; but was [subsequently] comforted with this following verse that he might be reassured [of God’s pleasure]: thereat God abrogates, nullifies, whatever Satan had cast, then God confirms His revelations. And God is Knower, of Satan’s casting of that which has been mentioned, Wise, in His enabling him [Satan] to do such things, for He does whatever He will.

Ibn abbas

(Never sent We a messenger or a Prophet before thee) O Muhammad (but when he) the Prophet (recited (the message)) or spoke (Satan proposed (opposition) about that which he recited thereof) such that he does not act upon it. (But Allah abolisheth) but Allah elucidates (that which Satan proposeth) on the tongue of His Prophet such that he does not act upon it. (Then Allah establisheth) then He clarifies (His revelations) for His Prophet in order that he acts upon them. (Allah is Knower) of that which Satan proposes, (Wise) He decrees to abolish it;

Maududi

[52-54] And, O Muhammad, (it has always been so with) every Messenger and Prophet96 We sent before you that whenever he had a desire,97 Satan tried to interfere with his desire.98 But Allah eradicates the mischiefs worked by Satan and confirms His Revelations,99 for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise,100 (He allows this) so that He may make Satan's obstacles a trial for those, whose hearts suffer from the disease (of hypocrisy) and whose hearts are false--the fact is that these unjust people have gone far away in their enmity-and so that those who have knowledge may realize that this (Message) is the Truth from Allah and may believe in it, and their hearts may submit humbly to it. Most surely Allah always guides the Believers to the Straight Way.101

Ibn Kathier

(52. Never did We send a Messenger or a Prophet before you but when he did recite (the revelation or narrated or spoke), Shaytan threw (some falsehood) in his recitation (of the revelation). But Yansakh Allah that which Shaytan throws in. Then Allah establishes His revelations. And Allah is All-Knower, All-Wise:) (53. That He (Allah) may make what is thrown in by Shaytan a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and whose hearts are hardened. And certainly, the wrongdoers are in an opposition far-off (from the truth).) (54. And that those who have been given knowledge may know that it (this Qur'an) is the truth from your Lord, so that they may believe therein, and their hearts may submit to it with humility. And verily, Allah is the Guide of those who believe, to the straight path.)

When did we hear such a thing happened to any prophet other than Muhammad?!

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  • Public Discussion (5)
Goes

Seriously Islam is a very strange and weak belief, which is never to be thought off, otherwise no rational thinking follower will remain following this strange ideology.

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:21 PM EDT
Mateo-660030

Even if those changes were really made by God, there is a logical problem that can not be solved. Those changes happened, when reality has changed during Mohamed’s life. The question is, did reality stop changing when Mohamed died? Of course not, and if it didn’t stop, and it will never stop, why the Qur’an is not now changing accordingly? Who is going to make those changes now? God or Muslims?

an excellent point. why is Islam still trapped in a 7th century, patriarchial, bedouin mindset when Muhammad adapted it as he needed in his lifetime? Islam really has no excuse to be so resistant to change, reform, and modernization.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:28 PM EDT
Goes

The problem is that Muhammad designed it to be unchangeable, and this is the reason why Muslims are so stubborn when it comes to changing or modernizing their religion.

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:37 AM EDT
GoesDeleted
teufelhund

Even if those changes were really made by God, there is a logical problem that can not be solved. Those changes happened, when reality has changed during Mohamed's life.

Another problem when you look at islam and the concept of abrogation is that the quran is supposed abrogate the message that was given to moses and jesus...messages that, according to islam, were corrupted by jews and christians, necessitating the "seal of the prophets" to reveal the original message...again.

Also according to islam, the original quran, the so-called "mother of the books" resides in paradise with allah...Here's where it gets funny...If allah, already sent down the message twice, and in the course of the 3rd revelation (islam) he decide to replace verses with others that are better, why didn't he just change the mother of the book before revealing his message to mo? Not to test mankind, but simply because allah has the power to change his mind...

He already had two other chances to get it right. You would think that the lord of the universe would be a pretty good editor, especially when it comes to the message designated for the believers...he should be pretty clear and straightforward on the third go-round...no need to add verses that are better.

Thinking logically, the most beneficent/most-merciful would not need abrogation...however, a hysterical, epileptic, camel-babysitting orphan in the middle of a hot desert would need it when the stuff he was saying didn't jive with other stuff he said...

  • 1 vote
#2.3 - Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:37 PM EDT
Goes

All of what you said makes a lot of sense too. I wonder how Muslims are so blinded to see all this nonsense in their faith?!

  • 1 vote
#2.4 - Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:43 PM EDT
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